Do you still hold out hope that we'll someday see an open-source Java? I think the way things are going on Apache, we're getting there little by little. We said what we said two years ago because we wanted to get the issues out there and have Sun respond. In different ways, they have responded.

Are you disappointed that Massachusetts may not fully implement OpenDocument? You've read some headlines that are incorrect. The state is firmly committed to moving forward with its OpenDocument plans on Jan. 1, 2007. Microsoft made some moves at the end of last year. The state said basically, "We'll look at them as they come along." As the situation changes, if Microsoft commits to doing everything that they need to -- and I would argue that they have not done everything that they need to do -- then the state will look at what they do like anything else.

But isn't Microsoft starting to make inroads against OpenDocument? The reference model that was put in place [by the ECMA standards group] last September, and is still in effect, is only OpenDoc. Microsoft has given their formats to ECMA and basically told ECMA, "Here they are. Don't change them, but please call them 'community and open,' even though we're the only ones allowed to do anything with them." All Massachusetts has said is, "Yes, you've done something; we'll look at it next time it comes around to see if it meets our requirements. If it doesn't meet our requirements, well, then it's still out." Don't fall into the trap that something that may happen in the future means that OpenDoc is out. There's a lot of work to be done in terms of Microsoft formats, ECMA formats, before they become a standard.